Richard, Phil and I met this morning at the Waxahachie IHOP for coffee, fellowship and discussion on this "new thing" we've begun.
I don't know if any of us are sure on how we should classify it. Is it a house church? Emergent church? House of prayer? It's so fluid right now and exciting.
I jotted down a few notes and thought this would be a good place to keep track of them and maybe get some feedback.
Here are some ideas/visions we discussed:
No building - the church is not a building, its the people. We want to think out of the box with meetings in homes, not a big spacious auditorium.
A heart of ministry and worship - maybe self explanitory, but we want to have a heart that's reaching out and ministering to people while we worship God.
Relational - we don't want anyone to feel like a number, or just a dude sitting in a pew, seat whatever. We want to build relationships and in that fellowship, learn from each other and grow together.
Constant communication - we want to build a community where people feel comfortable sharing ideas, prayer requests, concerns, needs.
Diverse
Smaller groups - in each house church group we invision smaller groups that meet outside the typical "community meetings." Such as women's groups, mens groups etc.
Christ seekers - we don't claim to know everything. We're just souls seeking God and a Christ-like life.
Multiplication - we invision the community growing and multiplying. How great would it be to know that every Saturday or Sunday people are getting together in a house in each neighborhood in Waxahachie, or Dallas, or Texas or the US to pray and draw close to God.
Ministry - we need to be involved in doing ministry in our community regularly. Whether we have 3 people or 30 people, we need to be out working in our community and sharing God's love.
10-15 people ideal - each house group will grow till 10-15 people are gathering weekly. From that, smaller groups will split off and start their own house groups in their neighborhood.
Monthly corporate meetings - each month all the house groups will gather for worship, sharing and testimony to share how God is working in their lives/groups/communities.
Ownership of faith - group members take ownership in their faith and put it to use.
Tithing - each person should be responsible for tithing to the church/community. This brings up a whole other topic of issues that we're not familiar with. Non-profit organization, bank accounts, etc. Something to study and look into: what is tithing? Is 10 percent scripturally required, or is that "man's standard?"
So those are some of our thoughts and ideas we discussed this morning. I'd love to hear other ideas and thoughts. Especially from those of you already involved in the emmergent church movement.
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4 comments:
I have actually not been to this site, but I found it intersting to read. I enjoyed reading the vision/ideas that you guys put forth. I have a whole series of questions.
First, I would completely agree that the church is not a building. Ekklesia-means "gathering" or "assembly"
Scripture alone is both authoratative and sufficienct. I believe Scripture attests to this as well as the Holy Spirit has convinced me of this truth. So acknowledging this, first, what are the Scriptural basis for your ideas. Not that these are not biblical concepts, but if we are going to stand on the Scriptures alone, then that is where one must first start.
Secondly, how do you hold each house group accountable to biblical teaching, especially in a time and culture that is absorded with relative truth and believers who have sat under preaching that has been too often "fluffy." Let's face it, Christians too often do not know what they believe and why the believe what they believe.
Thirdly, if you just met once a month, where would church discipline
take place? Who would administer it and how. What about the Lord's Supper and Baptism, the two ordinances of the church.
What about the offices of overseer, deacon and elder. Would you have them. It seems that Scriptures puts forth these positions and their qualification for a reason that extends beyond that culture.
i have more, but these are just a few that I am curious about. I know that what you three put forth were just ideas, but if your guys are serious about this, there are lots of things to think through.
Please know, I do not think your ideas or either wrong or not biblical, but I am, as a fellow believer, challenging you in love!
Finally, I am curious to know your definition of the emergent church. This is something that I do not know much about, but I would hope to delve in to quickly. i defintely don't want to label a church an emerging church if i do not clearly understand what that means exactly. Your insight would be appreciated!
Thanks for the thoughts and comments. We're still working through this and appreciate other thoughts and ideas.
Our thought/inspiration is the early church in Acts. As we understand it, the church met in homes and was a community of believers that came together as family and shared how God was working in their lives.
On accountability, that's another issue we've discussed briefly. So far we've only been meeting to discuss with each other what God is doing and then spending a lot of time in prayer. We haven't gotten into any specific studies, just praying and seeking God. We're each still involved in other local churches.
The monthly meetings would be an opportunity for each home group to come together as an entire entity community and share. I would imagine things like baptism and communion will be taken care of in the individual home groups, but could also be done at the monthly meetings.
We briefly discussed organization this morning and the idea of elders and deacons.
I really appreciate your thoughts and questions.
This is just my initial response, but I imagine we'll be discussing each of these issues in the next upcoming weeks.
So far, I don't think we're anything more than a prayer meeting and throwing ideas around.
Jonathan,
This sounds exciting.
The structure you are talking about
sounds a lot like how James Love's church is structured. You might want to pick his brain.
I would recommend that the parameters and objectives be very clear. What specifically do you want this new gathering/gatherings to accomplish?
Sounds like one objective might be to make the Word of God more accessible to those that may be now hindered by the structure of the brick and mortar type Churches?
If this is the case, you may wish to consider different ways to accomplish this. Does this have to be a stand alone new church or could an existing church sponsor this outreach (like an "at large")
part of an existing church. The pastor of an existing church could
preside over baptisms, etc.
I like it that you are thinking outside of the box.
Blessings,
Michael
Blundy,
Its Nash. Just read some of the comments and would like to offer a little. A lot of these thoughts have been wrestled w/, within my spirit and amongst a variety of people that constantly challenge me. I know we haven't discussed them, so I am just offering them as my convictions. I will keep it short, because if anyone wants more detail please come and enjoy the good times.
First, I want to address some of Anonymous' questions. Before I begin here I would like simply say, that God is challenging our generation in a way that he challenged Martin Luther's. We have become, in a way, corrupted by the establishment with which we built. A lot of our "beliefs" and interpretations of scripture come from others and not from the spirit. With that in mind, a great deal of my thoughts may seem "unholy" and detrimental to the church. To which I would say, "I'd rather be a stumbling block to the church, if in doing so God makes me a pathway for seekers to better know their God."
Ok, first Anony said scripture is authoratative and sufficient and everything should be measured according to it. Do I disagree with this statement....no, not really. But would challenge you on the perception of Scriptures authority. Why does Scripture hold authority? Because it is the Word of God. However, what do we hold as authority our interpretations of Scripture, or Scripture itself. Unfortunately, we most often hold our interpretations of scripture as the authority. Think about it. What was Luther's battle against? The Word that was held as authority, or "the church's" interpretation of these scripture. Likewise, I would challenge ones premise that Scripture is the end all authority. To say that God emptied His entire Word into the Bible, would be to say that God ceased speaking to men. As far as scriptural basis, we have started with God's words to Noah "be fruitful and multiply" and can follow it throughout to support our ideas. The point we would definitely like to make is that we do not believe that our thoughts on how "the church" should look are the end all and be all. That's the wonderful thing about Jehovah. The only time the church will fulfill her true form is when Christ returns to establish it fully. Until then we are simply trying to model him to the best of our abilities.
His second question pertained to accountability to Biblical teaching. Two points I want to make. First, I believe that if an individual or body of believers is being active in their faith (and I don't call sitting around making up guidelines and trying to interpret Scripture to mean what you want it to), for example outside working w/ orphanages, and sharing Christ in creative ways, then their minds and hearts will be consumed with understanding God's word. I get this belief from several pieces of scripture, but dig on Paul's word in Philemon 6. Second point, we have discussed having pastors of households, elders of communities/cities, and apostles which are set apart by God.
Anony asked about church discipline. That is a strength of smaller groups. We can hide inside the church of today, but if we focus each household to become family then what can be hidden. And of course, like most families, appropriate discipline comes from those who are closest. Challenge: how do you think Peter knew Ananias and Sapphira were not being honest with their gifts (Acts 5)? Another question pertained to the ritual of the Lord's Supper and how it would be enacted. My question is why do we have the Lord's Supper? It isn't in scripture (for those looking for authority of scripture). It is set before us a traditional time to step back and remember the actions of our Savior. Shouldn't that happen at every meal, or every gathering of believers. For me, I don't need grape juice (or wine for our Catholic brothers) and bread to do that. As for his inquisition about baptism. That's simple as well. One Scripture mentions two baptisms, one of the spirit, and one of repentance. Baptism in the Spirit came from Christ, baptism of repentance (our water baptism) was of John the Baptist. We can find water anywhere, and baptism of the spirit well that like water can be practiced anywhere the Spirit and the individual are willing (Acts 8:9-25).
I know that I did not fully address every question, but I don't have all the answers. And some we can save for later. To Michael Kelly, I thank you for your thoughts. The parameters are something our hearts are seeking right now. However, the church has so often been limited by specific goals and parameters that we are currently struggling with that balance. How specific, how free?
Here is the question I would like to post: Discipleship? How do we disciple in this situation? Blundy and I talked about this on Saturday, but I would like to hear the thoughts of other.
Til next time. Keep walking, keep pushing, keep praying. We need strength. For the road is long. My love to all the saints of the church. My heart for all those who could claim to be a seeker. May we continue to seek, for "blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled."
Nash
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